NICHOLAS OH / AYDO STUDIO

Nicholas Oh received his MFA from Rhode Island School of Design. He was awarded artist-in-residence at Pioneer Works, Anderson Ranch Arts Center, Sculpture Space, and Shigaraki Cultural Park. His work has been exhibited at venues such as the National Building Museum (Smithsonian Institute), Spring Break Art Show, American Museum of Ceramic Art, Mills College Art Museum, Milwaukee Art Institute, RISD Museum. Nicholas is currently teaching at Rhode Island School of Design and Brooklyn College. He has previously taught at Greenwich House Pottery, Bennington College, Sacramento State University, and Oxfordshire Arts. He is also leading the ceramics department at Pioneer Works.

Hi Nicholas! Thanks for joining me for Mint Tea. To begin, what’s your favorite tea? If you don’t drink tea, what kind of coffee or drink do you enjoy the most?

I drink coffee, I like Peet's Coffee. It came from California, but it's everywhere now. I used to make my own coffee, so that's my jam.

Could you tell me about your background and your practice?

I am Korean American. I was born in Wisconsin, and then moved to Korea when I was seven and came back when I was fifteen. I went to high school in Oregon and moved to San Francisco for college. I moved to the east coast for grad school back in 2016. So my practice, originally, I started as a ceramic artist, and then kind of built my way up. I realized, while I was applying for grad school, that the ceramics community is not diversified enough, and there was there wasn't enough dialogue happening around my work, which is more political. So then I shifted my interest more towards contemporary art. That's why I went to RISD. So most of my practice right now, a lot of it is 3-D scanning. There's also video, performance, sculpture, and of course I've done ceramics for so long, so there's a lot of ceramics as well. The list goes on, but it's easier to kind of summarize as sculpture and installation.

Could you give a brief summary of some of your projects?

Let's see, there are so many different projects. One of the projects that I'm working on, an ongoing current project is “Dave Kim the Potter,” which is an alter ego. And this is a social experiment through Instagram. So I created this alter ego with this very stereotypical Korean name, Dave Kim. Pretty much making very traditional Korean vessels to kind of lure an audience to think that I'm this real person who makes traditional Korean pottery, to kind of fit into the stereotype what people think of Korean pottery, and also as a Korean American body. A lot of the audience kind of falls into the Instagram thinking that I am this person, and I'm just seeing how people react to that. In the ceramics community, there's a big lack of diversity, and there's also a couple of tiers within ceramics. So they put all the Asian pottery at the very top, and then they'll put, like, European pottery, and then they always put African American pottery at the very bottom. As an Asian American, having an Asian American body, you kind of fall to the top just because of who you are. I'm kind of taking advantage of that, and kind of making fun, or pointing out the fact that I can easily garner attraction because of who I am. It's not really about reclaiming it, because I as a Korean American, I can't say that I'm a master of Korean pottery. You know, a lot of pottery that I've done, I actually got educated in America. So what I know about Korean pottery is just through visiting potters in Korea, meeting professionals within Korea to kind of learn about the process, but I myself haven’t I haven't actually practiced it, but to the degree that I'm doing, I'm able to convince people that I am. So I think that’s one of the interesting parts that I'm trying to point out through this practice. So that's been an ongoing project. I've done it for the last three years. I'm just trying to grow as big as I can and keep pretending that I'm this person.

I am the most familiar with your installation and pottery works. Can you talk about how and why you choose to work with the media that you do?

Pottery, I'm just really familiar with. And when I started making art, I realized there's such a presence in installations and immersive spaces. So, while I was trying to kind of get away from ceramics and get into more contemporary art, that was my approach, to use my skill, the skill that I have as a ceramic artist, and to expand that to more contemporary conversations. So one of the works, the “Moon Roller” that was like a roller coaster, that work is about the history of moon jars. Within the world right now, there are only about 20 to 30 moon jars that exist, real moon jars from a specific time, a specific place, and by specific people, and Korea owns about 10 of them. I think America has like 15, there's some in Europe, there's some in Japan, but the whole piece is about tracing back where the moon jars are, and where they come from, and how the meaning of the vessel changed throughout the time. So that's kind of a central theme of my artwork, as well. I'll find an object, see an object that I really relate to, and try to find the history beyond that, and try to trace what happens to that object throughout time. For the “Moon Roller,” my specific object was moon jars, and I did an extensive research on the history of moon jars, how they're made, what happened throughout the history, and what it represents now.

Did you always love working with clay and ceramics?

I started when I took a class and undergrad, which was back in 2008. I just kind of fell in love with what it could do and the possibilities of the material. It’s so malleable, but then at the same time you get sucked into it, and you start to realize things blow up, things crack. The initial process is really easy because you shape something and then you just hope it works but it doesn't. In that regards it’s really addicting because you start to create these things and it doesn't work, you try something else, it doesn't work. It's almost like a scientist doing research and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't and narrowing the possibilities of what it could do. So I got really stuck into it for years and years and years. My goal at some point was, “I'm going to become an expert at this.” So yeah, so that's why I use so much ceramics in my work, because I'm familiar with it, I've done so much research about it so that I'm really comfortable using the material. And I think it's impressive to a lot of people, what ceramics can do. As somebody who teaches pottery, my goal is always to kind of spread the beauty of working with ceramics.

I find the human figures that you create very powerful, and I see that you hand sculpt some of them with clay and 3-D print others. How is your creative process different when using tactile methods like pottery as opposed to digital 3-D modeling?

When it comes to ceramics, you’re trying to develop different projects, so depending on the project, I'll use different materials. What really matters is the finished product, to me. If I can get to making a figure that's more realistic, as fast as I can, then I'll resort to something like 3-D scanning, or mold making, taking parts of a body and casting in resin or plaster. In terms of 3-D scanning and 3-D printing, it’s the fastest way to do it, because you literally scan one second, and then you're printing the next day, and the next day you have the whole figure. For figures made out of clay, clay is actually a really cheap material compared to other materials. Say I'm casting in resin or plastic, clay is a lot cheaper. So especially when I'm making multiples of things, I tend to gravitate towards clay because it's so fast. And also the process is really, I guess for me, it's comfortable. As an artist, I think I always fall into my comfort zone. Yeah, and I know how to express it.

Sometimes, depending on what the project leads towards, clay could be used in different ways. One of the projects we did together – A Young and me, for the film shoot – is that we poured like 50 or 60 gallons of porcelain slip onto the ground. We knew how that dries out, and we wanted the texture of the clay when it dried. Porcelain is completely white, so it's almost like you're in like a white desert. We wanted that effect, so we just used clay. We also built a bathtub that will sit in the water. And we knew that, something made out of clay, it gets fossilized, you can put it anywhere and it will last forever. So we put it in in the middle of a river.

What kind of vessel do you enjoy making the most?

One time I worked with this designer, and he literally just drew shapes. And then I went out to create vessels. That was the most fun I ever had, because these are shapes that I would never make. It was really challenging, and for myself to be able to do that, it was really exciting because you're like, “Oh, that's that's a weird shape, I never made that before.” Then you start to make it and it’s like, “Oh, wow, this is this is fun.” You learn something new about yourself through that process. So I guess I wouldn't say I have a specific shape. It's more like the challenge of making new shapes is what I really enjoy.

What do you think is the role of humor in art?

I think depends on the project, but a lot of times, humor is one of the most important things to me. Because anybody can relate to humor, and I think sometimes this society is too complex, or too complicated, too tense, and you need to loosen that up. Also, when it comes to political work, having too much tension or too much negative feelings is good in its own way, and is powerful, but I think coming through humor is also another powerful way of expressing statements. So I find that one of the most important things when I'm making work, there has to be humor. There has to be some sexiness, it has to be something that gravitates towards something that's not what it’s meant to be. I think that's how you get people's attention. And also, I think you need to have that in life in general. Because if you're making really intense work you want to be able to take a step back and to still laugh at it. A lot of time it comes from social interactions too, because we can laugh at all you want but the next person might not. Creating a dialogue with other people and talking about is the humor offensive.

What projects are you working on right now?

Just too many. Ever since we collaborated, we're just making way too much work, but it's good. Let's see, so the main project that we're working on is this series of mother and daughter urns that are in three parts. We’re taking a lot of Korean influence and traditional Korean vessels and taking the motifs and designing our own urns. We're trying to finish that as soon as we can. But we do have an ongoing project, which is the film. It's called “Blood Memory.” It's an ongoing project, and every time we have a new idea off of the project, we create a whole new work that kind of lives on its own. So that's, that's what we've been doing. I mean, we started our own project, thinking that it's going to be part of the film, but now it's becoming something. We're also expanding into inviting different artists and different folks. One of the people that are going to be participating in this ongoing project is a shaman. He's getting initiated to be a Korean shaman in Korea in the fall. So we've been working together and have creating dialogues around shamanism and ancestral memories. That's kind of our main focus right now, to try to figure out how our artwork aligns with what he brings into the project. We're also finishing up some of the 3-D printed, 3-D scanned sculptures, planning installations and trying to make a film out of it. Other than that, we're also planning a trip to Hawaii with some dancers from Korea. We have our DP here in New York, and we're gonna all go to Hawaii. My old professor is there, so trying to tap into the history of Hawaii, how Asian Americans are prominent people within these islands, and they have such a long history. I used to go there work for work all the time, and every time I go there, I'm really impressed. Also, there are still folks that were at this Japanese internment camp. They're people you can talk to and learn about that experience. I'm also looking forward to have a dialogue around that and learn about ancestral trauma, as well.

How did your art collective, Aydo Studio, begin?

So we took a road trip last year across the country, north to California, and then we came back down south, full circle. And this is last year, June, in the middle of the pandemic. We wanted to take some time off, we decided to drive, and A Young has never been to a lot of these states. So it was a good experience and we had a lot of downtime, we got to kind of talk and figure out what we want to do in terms of artwork if we do create artwork together, and that's where it kind of started. During this road trip, you know, hours and hours of driving, we’d just have all these crazy ideas, and then we'll just throw them out there and see what happens and we'll try to make them real. So that's kind of how this whole collective started, with just vague ideas, and then we just got more and more into it. We've been having a really good response in terms our friends and colleagues, so I guess here we are now a year later. Same thing, just including more people.

Could you tell me more about your collaborative process with the artist A Young Yu? Is there a specific area or task that you are in charge of?

I'm not gonna say there's a specific task for me other than carrying heavy stuff. Yeah, carrying heavy stuff, and ceramics, I guess, but really just carrying heavy stuff. And driving stuff. No, so most of my work is very political, heavy, and that's what my interest is, in terms of art. It always has to be political, it has to have a statement, it has to have research in history. Especially when it comes to materials or even sites, whether we're talking about DMZ and the history of DMZ, and the political statement of us as Korean Americans being in these very high tension areas. So things like that are what matters to me the most in terms of when we're creating art together. And for A Young, I can't really speak for her, but there are a lot of gray areas when it will come together and areas that will overlap, and that's where we come together and create artwork.

I know that several of your performances were staged in the Korean DMZ. Can you talk about the importance of the locations that Aydo Studio has performed in and why you chose them?

Initially, when we actually did the road trip, we were visiting different national parks. And I thought that was important for us, as Korean Americans. I keep going back to this, but being in these different spaces as descendants of immigrants, and bringing our own culture into these places where it's a national park, right? We're performing within the spaces, either being naked or doing things that we're not supposed to do. I thought that was really important, and we kind of took that on and carried on to the next project, which is the ongoing film project. Especially the one in Korea, as Korean Americans, there is this sense of trying to figure out where you belong. Because if you're in Korea, you're American, unless you speak fluent Korean.

But they’re still like, “you're like one of us, but you’re not?” And obviously, when we're here in America, just because of the way we look, we’re othered. So when we were at the DMZ, it was important for us to be there because of the tension between North and South Korea. And also because as a Korean-American being in these really high-tension places, we thought that was really important as a political statement, immersing our bodies into the nature. We also talk about how spirits are imbued in that landscape, and that comes from Korean shamanism. So we're trying to take on some of the aspects into our performances and take a little political twist into the work that we're doing. I talked about being in Hawaii, and how the Asian American immigrants, they play a vital role in terms of the community. So we're trying to pick up on that, when we're in that landscape as well.

What kind of emotions do you channel while you perform? In the entire span of your performance, when do you feel the most vulnerable or powerful?

I think, the major part of our performances, we're just trying not to laugh. The whole time was just holding laughter. Sometimes we have really intimate performances, we're doing it together, and it's the nightmare because we're constantly laughing, you know. And sometimes it gets to a point where our DP is like, we're running out of time, the sun's going down. But other than that, we're performing sometimes in really serious places, with a lot of trauma and a lot of tension. We have to really take their energy into ourselves, and try to respect that, and respect that landscape, respect the history of the landscape, respect who we are, and how we got to where we are. And we try to channel that through the performance. And a lot of times we do it through just maybe taking a break and thinking about the history of the place, or even just like talking to someone about what this place means to us.

I feel the most powerful when we're actually watching the video, from the outside perspective, because when you're in it, you don't really realize what was happening around you and how you look. Sometimes I feel like, “Oh, I botched that, I'm not sure that's gonna look good.” And then I look back at the footage, and I actually surprise yourself like, “Wow, that looks really good.” So there's a lot of doubt, in terms of performance, but also because we're not professional dancers or professional actors. There is that bit there where we lack confidence, and when we're editing videos and stuff like that, that’s when everything comes together. That's when we start to be like, “Oh, yeah, it makes sense. Did we mean to do that? No, that was that was totally intentional.” So there's a lot of letting the performance take you the way it should and, or the way you imagined it, or the way it happens.

What Korean rituals are you the most inspired by?

When I was growing up in Korea, I saw a lot of rituals that would happen all of the time. And one of the most impressive one was walking on swords. It takes a certain practice, and these shamans practice for their entire life to do these performances, and I don't think there's enough appreciation for that. I used to breakdance, and as a dancer, I really appreciate honing a performance skill, and shamanism, a lot of it is performance, whether it be spiritual or not. I think a lot of is getting the right movements down, doing it over and over until your body gets used to it. That's one aspect of shamanism that I'm really inspired by.

What is it like constantly interacting with a collaborative partner as you create?

I think that thing is part of the reason why we work, because we're not trying to kill each other. I think that's when I realized, yes, we can really work together. We come through really constructive arguments without hating each other, having negative feelings toward each other. I think that's really helpful, in terms of collaborating. In a way, it's vital to our collaboration, because we're constantly talking about work. I think like 80%, of our conversation is about work. Some people might say it’s really unhealthy, but for artists, it's really healthy. As artists, that's all we think about, “Did I make the right decision?” Having somebody to talk with about it constantly, I think it's really good. And we're really different as people too, so we will always have different opinions about things. Just because I made the decision, she's not always gonna agree, she's going to have her own idea. And then two seconds later, as artists do, we'll come up with another idea. Sometimes we will flip sides and take the position the other started out with.

It’s wonderful to see you and A Young interact with each other during your performance. How do you like being in front of cameras, audiences, or A Young, and performing?

I actually do some performance in my own practice. Dave Kim is a performer, you know, especially when I’m teaching, I go to these classes pretending to be another person. So I'm not really familiar with working performance, but the main thing?

I've done a lot of workshops too, so I'm always constantly around people and new faces. So that was an easy transition. For the other side, working with professional video or a cinematographer is actually the most intriguing part for me, because I've never worked with a professional cinematographer, and having these different angles and somebody who's actually worked in film coming to me about how I should face, or how I should react, or how I should perform within a frame. That's the new thing to me that I've learned, ever since I've been working with A Young. So that aspect of working within the frame, compared to like working outside the frame where I'm like performing and doing different things, or interacting with people, that doesn't matter as much, because if somebody were to come take photos or videos, they'll find their own angles. But when I'm working with the cinematographer and working on this film, I'm working for that angle. So switching gears and trying to work towards that has been kind of an interesting process.

Do you have a Korean mythical creature that you like?

We just found one, I forgot what it's called, but it has a cat's head and a snake body. Meowdusa. Yeah. What is that? Is that a joke? That was really interesting. But besides that, the Turtle Ship from Korea, I was really fascinated when I was young. And turtle dragons are mythical creatures in Korea. I used to draw them when I was a little kid all the time. I thought they were fascinating creatures. We have this ongoing joke, where A Young was talking about how to how to make something more interesting. And then she slipped out, “we should put a turtle in it.” So my ongoing thing every time we get a chance is to be like, “Oh, we should put a turtle,” or even for the urns that we're working on, I was like, “What if the base was a turtle?” But yeah, a Korean turtle dragon. For me, the more interesting part is that a lot of these mythical creatures don't have drawings, you don't actually know what it looks like, and you can just imagine what it looks like. And that's the best part because then you can literally draw something and be like, this is my version of this mythical creature because there's no historical context of what it looks like. So that's why we did the cat head and snake body. We were like, well, there's no drawings of this.

What is your favorite color? Does it find its way into your artwork?

I try to, but that's the whole thing about pink. Pink is my favorite – gold is my favorite color, but my second favorite color is pink. So I always try to put either gold or pink.

Is there a new medium that you would like to try, or to work in more?

Yeah, so I sometimes I buy random stuff, just because I think they're cool. I bought this projector. You can project in a way to make things three-dimensional. It's called Lightform. It uses this bitmap programming, and you can project something onto an object and make it look 3d. I bought it last year, and I literally used it once. I've been meaning to do something with it. We were going to use it in a performance, but it's hard to work with a projector and film it.

Where are you located now? How was your art different, depending on where you were?

We're located in three different places right now. So we have a studio at EFA in the city. And we have a studio at Pioneer Works, that's the ceramic studio. And then we have studio in Industry City, which is kind of like the resin studio, because it has a lot of ventilation, and a lot of lights. We use that to do resin installations, stuff like that. But depending on where we are things change a lot. When we were in Korea, we got to use pretty much the entire sculpture department at this university. Nobody was using it because of the whole COVID situation, and it was winter, so we really got in there. And obviously we could use whatever we had, and our practice really changed because we were using a lot of Korean materials. We're using Korean herbs, Korean clay, even like garments, because everything's so cheap. Like everything Korean made is all the sudden cheap, right? It's like three times cheaper than you can get in America. We were like buying like crazy. We went to this Buddhist store, it was like three stories tall. Each floor has like different types of stuff. They have anything from like crazy weapons to Buddhist statues and any kind of garment you can get. Weird hairs, candles, incense, anything you can think of in terms of shamanism and Buddhism, they had it. So we were getting a bunch of stuff there and then we're creating artwork from the combination of all these things. We had so much space that we were able to expand. We shouldn't ever have big studios like that – too much work.

How do you stay connected to your community?

I'm pretty new in New York. I've only been here three years, but I don't know if last year counts because there wasn't much community developing then. So I'm pretty new to New York and my commuinity is pretty small, but we're trying to get to know more people. I've met a lot of people through A Young, because she has a whole Colombia cohort, and they have their whole entire network. A lot of people that I know in New York are also from Pioneer Works. I did a residency there, and I know a lot of people through that. But also at the same time, a lot of artists moved out of the city, and they’re no longer here, it's like, I'm missing half of my friends or the people who I used to hang out with. We are slowly trying to get together and create this community of people that we know, and start this conversation around marginalized artists. We did dinner, we had like 10 people, got together and just started trying to connect people that we know to each other. So eventually we'll get bigger dinners and stuff going on.

What’s your favorite tool?

I mean, my body for sure. Like, I work my body really hard. So I should take a break. But other than that, we were donated this 3-D printer, I just fixed it. And that's how we're able to print these large scans of ourselves. I've been using a lot and just learning how to fix the 3-D printer and putting it together and making it work. That's been really exciting. You know, that that printer has been going like non-stop for the last two months. Hope it doesn't break.

What is the space where you do your work?

We watch a lot of movies, a lot of old movies as well, and try to draw inspiration from that. I think just taking time off, really. I think as artists, we get so addicted to working, and you're like, “Oh, let me just like work on this for another five minutes,” and three hours pass by. So stopping yourself, going away from the studio, and just like relaxing for a day or two has always been really helpful for me. Even sleeping for an entire day – immerse yourself in your dreams, and you wake up with this crazy idea that might work and might not. Just being in that comfortable headspace of trying to explore and trying to come up with new ideas. Because if you're working on one or two projects constantly then you kind of run out of creativity. You get into this rhythm of not thinking outside of your project. That's why the road trip was so helpful, to get away from the city and just be with nature and not have access to like, bars and things that will just distract you.

Do you have any ritual that helps you get into the zone?

Yeah, sleep. Sleeping the right amount. It always gets me to the right place. I can't think of anything else other than getting the right amount of sleep.

When do you know when you are finished with your work or a body of work?

To be honest, I don't think it ever ends. I could look at work two, three years – I even have work from like, seven years ago, that I still look into, like, I should finish that. So yeah, I'm not sure when it ends. It ends when it has to be shown, and you have to finish it. When it has a deadline.

Are there any Korean artists who you especially like?

I like Suh Do Ho. Yeah, his work is really interesting. Michael Joo’s work has always fascinated me. But they both come from very different angles in terms of their work, and I like to compare their work in that sense as somebody who's completely Korean American and somebody who's Korean but who's lived in America. I like to see that contrast as a Korean American, like where do I fit in in terms of that conversation as a Korean American artist?

Who are your favorite practicing artists?

Oh, that's hard. I don’t know, I'm inspired by a lot of dead artists. I mean, I'm definitely inspired by people that I worked with in the past. I have a professor who I worked with for a long time, and he's definitely influenced me when I started ceramics. And he's guided me, not only in my practice, but in my political views. I really see that as an important part for a teacher. I'm not saying one political aspect is the right side, but having that opinion and having your students realize that there is a political element to the arts or in your life in general, and you should believe in something that might help you. I always thought that was really important. And he really guided me towards what I think is my political opinion. His name is David Kuraoka. He's a professor in Hawaii, and we’ve work closely together for so long. It's kind of funny, some people think that I'm his son. He's Japanese American and he also has long hair, so it's like, yeah, of course, those guys are related. And you know, he doesn't sugarcoat anything, which is great. Telling me things bluntly, the way that I was able to learn that through that experience. He is one of my biggest inspirations.

What gives you the feeling of butterflies in your stomach?

Like I said earlier, when we're performing, we’re not really sure what's happening, but when we're watching the footage, that's definitely the moment we both feel like wow, this is legit, this is really good. It gives me a lot of self-confidence, and also lots of butterflies. And I think that's what we keep working towards. It doesn't matter how hard it is, doesn't matter how long it takes to get to that point. I mean, the footage could be literally like five minutes, and we're working months and months for this five minutes of footage, and once we get to watch it, I don't think there's anything else more satisfying than that.

www.nicholasohstudio.com | @nicholasohstudio

www.aydostudio.com | @aydo_studio